Are You a Creationist or an Evolutionist pt 2?

SPEAKER A You once to every time in the sight of the good or evil sky don't break on you that I choice of life forever with that darkness. And. SPEAKER B The Bible assures us in Ephesians two, verses eight to ten, for by grace you have been saved through faith. And that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Welcome to faith to faith Here are your hosts, Ettienne McClintock and Braedan Entermann. SPEAKER C Dear listener, greetings and a warm welcome. Thank you for joining us on the program again today. We are pleased you've been able to join us. And we're on this journey where we're now looking at part two of the program we started last week. And the program was called are you a Creationist or an Evolutionist? And we unpacked what evolutionist was last time and just in synopsis evolution basically is a theory. It is a hypothesis that suggests how we came into existence. It basically is by chance, by random, by mutations, survival of the fittest, and then also by long, long periods of time. Now, when we look at that, it is the transition from a lower to a higher form, from the worst to the better, from the simple to the complex and things in general progress. And they get better of themselves. And the thing that causes it to get better is actually itself. And this is a process that marks an increased value in existence. Now, just as we start looking at this and we start looking at creation, we just invite you to bow with us for a word of prayer. Gracious. Heavenly Father, we look at you as our creator, our redeemer and Sustainer. And as we look at this concept of creation and we look at the antagonism between that and evolution, we just pray for understanding, for clarity of thought, even for the one who's listening, Father, that we'll be able to understand this, that we'll be able to be able to set aside a evolutionary mindset, even with the way that we are saved and even in the way we relate to you and what good works has to do with creation and evolution. Bless us now, Father. Lead us in our discussion is our prayer in Jesus'name. Amen. SPEAKER D Amen. SPEAKER C Okay, so we've defined a little bit what creation is and evolution is. We believe that creation is deliberate, it's meaningful. There's care in there. It's all about life. It's about design, it's about purpose, morality and an expression of love. Evolution obviously has a different view, and it's all about chance. There's some meaningless indifference. It's about perpetuating the species pretty much, and just passing on your DNA. Now, Richard Dawkins is a person that actually made this comment. He said the universe that we observe is precisely the properties that we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference. Now, of course, our worldview is one of faith. It's one that we believe in God as creator and one that believes in design and purpose for every single person on this planet. And not that it ends at death, but there's an opportunity for eternal life. This is but a dress rehearsal for the real life which is to come. SPEAKER D That's right. And what we looked at in our last presentation is that with creation you start with a black abyss in Genesis, chapter one. And we're about to go there. And it's God who is the active driver. It's God's intention, it's God's power that creates and makes this world what it is. In the theory of evolution, you've got nothing which happens to explode. And there's this long processes of it in and of itself trying to become something more than what it is. So one is God doing it, making it better than what it is. The other one is itself, through time and chance, becoming something more than what it is. And what we realized at the end of our last presentation is that it's actually possible to be a creationist yet have an evolutionary approach to our Christian life. SPEAKER C Right. SPEAKER D Because we're having a look at how evolution is the advancing to a higher form of life through slow processes, ups and downs, ice ages here and there, difficulties. And it's this general slow process of becoming more than what it is. And if we look at the average Christian experience that people talk to me about is they're saying, I look forward to the day when one day that'll be behind me. SPEAKER C Yes. SPEAKER D I look forward to when I won't have to deal with that anymore. That temper. One day God will give me the victory over that. I'll get there eventually. And then they go through an ice age. SPEAKER C Yes. So the difference between where they are now and where they want to be is all a matter of time. SPEAKER D It's a long way in the future. SPEAKER C Yes. SPEAKER D And I'll get there eventually is the mindset. And this is a mindset that I've had myself at portions of my life. SPEAKER C And I can relate to it as well. SPEAKER D It's the idea of one day. One day, provided the right circumstances, provided the right chance, I will become something that God wants me to be. And it's actually a non biblical approach to the Christian life. Okay. It's the crazy thing. We can be believers in creation, that our world came from God and yet with the recreation of our soul, we can be evolutionists. SPEAKER C Wow. SPEAKER D So that there is our problem. We believe that God spoke in Genesis and he created dramatically and quickly this beautiful world that we live in. Yet when he's working to recreate our hearts that's we say, no, God give it 70 years. Don't don't rush on that. Yes, give it 70 years. Or maybe one day, maybe when I move to a new suburb, maybe when I have a new job, maybe when I have some more money, then I'll be able to be what God wants me to be. And then there's an ice age and there's no real development. It's all starting back to the beginning again. Volcano blows up, everything dies. And then you start again, back to square one. SPEAKER C You maybe walk away from the Lord for a little while, or you distract it for a while, and then you come back to the Lord again and you start all over. Yeah, that sounds like evolutionary process. And I think probably many people and I have a look at my life, I can see some of those processes in my own life. But is that really the Christian experience that God offers us? And is that what we read in the word of God? SPEAKER D No, it's not okay, because when we go to the book of Genesis, if we turn there now Genesis, chapter one, we see how the Creator operates. Now, if we want to be creationists, we want to see the Creator and understand how he creates. SPEAKER C Yes. SPEAKER D He doesn't create through slow processes. He doesn't create through a series of ups and downs and ice ages over a long period of time. When God does something, when God speaks, a miracle happens. So beginning here in verse one, it says, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. Then God said, let there be light, and there was light. SPEAKER C Okay, so God speaks light into existence. The way he creates light is by saying these words, let there be light. And then the account tells us very clearly, there was light. Now, how long Braedan how long did it take for God to say, let there be light and for light to appear? If you look at a theistic evolutionary process, they would say it could be thousands, millions of years, billions of years. You don't know how long, but it's a long period of time before the light actually manifested itself. But the Bible says when God said on the very first day, let there be light, it also tells us, and there was light. SPEAKER D And there was light. Yep. SPEAKER C So how long between God saying, let there be light and the fact that there was light, how long was that period? SPEAKER D Was it an hour? Was it a minute? SPEAKER C No, it wasn't none of those one long time period. SPEAKER D It was instantaneous. SPEAKER C Okay. Now we can just draw on some of the words of the Bible to explain the understanding that the Christians have from the Scriptures in regards to how long it was. And this is from Psalm chapter 33 and verse nine, it says, for he that is God. For God spoke and it was done. He commanded and it stood fast. It was instantaneous. When God said that there be light, there was light in a flash, there was no delay. If we say there was a delay, that is an evolutionary process and that's what we would call theistic evolution. But theistic evolution is just a step closer to evolution. It's not really creation. SPEAKER D That's right. And so what we have here is whenever God opens his mouth, something amazing happens. So God says, let there be light. SPEAKER C Yes. SPEAKER D And lo and behold, immediately as God says, that light which prior to that wasn't in existence, comes into existence. SPEAKER C Which takes us back to that text there. In Hebrews chapter eleven, verse three, it says that the things which now appear were made from elements and things that weren't there previously. SPEAKER D That's right. And so we have to, as Christians, understand this basic principle. When God creates, he uses his word. And His Word is so intrinsically powerful that he brings into reality things that previously weren't. SPEAKER C Yes. SPEAKER D So he says, let there be light. He says, let there be an atmosphere separating the waters from the waters. And immediately as he says that, it happens, he says, let there be fish, let there be sun, moon and stars, let there be and the list goes on. SPEAKER C Yes. SPEAKER D He even comes down to let there be animals. And God speaks and a miracle happens. There is such amazing power in God's Word to create and so that's how God creates and it's very important for us to realize how he creates. SPEAKER C Yeah, that's fascinating that God actually speaks things into existence. Now we see Jesus here on Earth when he spoke as well. And we can go to John and just look at what John says regarding Christ's words when he was here on Earth. And I'm going to go to John, chapter twelve, because the same words and the same power that was evident in creation was evident in what Jesus was able to do because people came to Him. He would speak things to them and things would happen. Now I want to sort of drill down on exactly how long it took for after God, after God said something through Jesus Christ, how long would it actually take to happen? But in verse 49 of John, chapter twelve, we read jesus says and for I have not spoken by my own authority, but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. So the words originated emanated from God, and the words that Christ spoke were the words of God. So when Jesus actually spoke to people peace and goodwill, he spoke to them forgiveness and healing. How long do we think it needs to take for that word to actually have an effect on the listener? Perhaps we can look at some examples do we go to chapter eight of Matthew? SPEAKER D Let's go there. Matthew, chapter eight. SPEAKER C Yes. And just look at a couple of stories. There's a couple of healing stories there which is fascinating but demonstrates what we're trying to say here regarding the creative power of God that within God's word, there's inherent power to produce the thing that it speaks, even if it didn't exist before, even if the materials that now exist to make this thing wasn't there to start off with. SPEAKER D That's right. SPEAKER C God makes something out of nothing. SPEAKER D That's right. So in chapter eight and verse one, we see one story, and it's a story where Jesus cleanses a leper. It says, when he had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him, and behold, a leper came and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean. Then Jesus put out his hand and touched him, saying, I am willing. And then these two words, be cleansed. Yes, be cleansed. And then the next word is amazing. It says immediately his leprosy was cleansed. SPEAKER C Sorry, how long did it take? SPEAKER D Immediately. SPEAKER C Immediately. So when we said, when God said, Let there be light, and there was light, immediately he spoke and it was done. He commanded and it stood fast. We see the same word of God in action in the words of Jesus Christ. SPEAKER D That's right. SPEAKER C When this leper said, if you are willing, you can make me clean. And Jesus says, I am willing. And then those two words, be cleansed. And the Bible tells us immediately, immediately, no delay. So if we hear those words spoken to us, if Jesus we say, Lord, I'm filthy, I need to be cleansed, and we read, I'm willing. Be clean. Do we think, okay, we've got to go home now, we've got to wait a while. Maybe we're going to come back to church next week, or maybe we got to get a few more Bible studies. And week after week we hope and long for their cleansing, and we wait to see it in our own life, and we start living as if we can do the cleansing ourselves over a period of time. And we do well for a little while, and then we fall. We may have an ice age or there's an eruption volcano that goes off on our life. And the cleansing never quite comes when you only have sporadic cleansing. Is that atheistic evolutionary mindset in regards to the gospel? SPEAKER D It's actually a wrong mindset. It's not a Christian mindset to have, because when we're taking this story here he comes and he knows he's physically filthy and unclean, and he says, Jesus, can you clean me? And he says, I totally want to help you. And he says, be clean. These words come from his mouth, be clean. And he is clean immediately when it comes to the cleansing of our soul. In the book of Ezekiel, chapter 36, god says verse 25 then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean. I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you. I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My spirit within you and cause you to walk in My judgments, and you will keep My judgments and do them. Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be My people, and I will be your God. Over and over again, God says, I will clean you. I will clean you. I will heal you. I will clean you. And it's interesting when we read the Gospel story, we read the story of that leper being cleansed. We read that word immediately and we go, wow, I'd love to see that. But God has a power that is available to us today where he can clean our souls just like that. And that's the work of salvation. SPEAKER C Yeah, well, look, there's a second story there in the Gospel of Matthew, chapter eight as well. The first one there is with a leper being cleansed and says, when Jesus said, Be cleansed, immediately his leprosy left him and he was clean. Then we have a centurion. So this person is not even of the faith community of Israel. He's not born a Jew. He's a centurion. He's a Roman. And he comes and sends to the Lord and says, lord, my servant is lying at home, paralyzed, dreadfully tormented. And when he says that to Jesus, jesus says, I will come and heal him. But then the centurion answers and said, Lord, I am not worthy that you should come under my roof. But he says this, but speak the Word only and my servant will be healed. So the centurion had been observing Jesus, and when Jesus spoke, he saw things happen. When Jesus spoke, he realized that there was inherent within His Word a creative energy and a creative power. That when he spoke, whatever he said happened. The leper just before that was cleansed. Jesus said, I'm willing be clean. And immediately, immediately the leper was cleansed. Now he says to the Lord, look, speak the Word only, just like you've done with the leper, because this is the second story. After the leper, speak the Word only and My servant will be healed, he knows that God doesn't even have to be there in person. Jesus Christ, who's God manifests in the flesh, doesn't have to be there in person. He can actually remote thee just by speaking His Word. Distance has no bearing on the power of His Word. He can speak the word. And because he has that authority within His Word, he will be clean. And when Jesus heard this, he marveled. He says, I have found not such great faith, not even in israel. Now we're talking about Israel here. Israel is the one who would read the word of God on a regular basis in their synagogues. I mean every time they go into the synagogue on the Sabbath, they would read the word of God, they would read out of the Old Testament, they were known as people of the book, but yet somehow they missed something that the centurion was able to pick up on. And when Jesus noticed that, he marveled saying these not seen such great faith anywhere, not even in Israel, who are the people of the Book? Interesting, Israel would have read Ozai often. In Isaiah chapter 55, verse eleven, the word of God tells him, god says, so shall my word be that goes out of my mouth. It shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish what I please and it shall prosper in the thing in which I sent it. So now Jesus, whenever he speaks the word, it accomplishes the thing that he says and it prospers in the things that it sends. So when he says to the leper, be clean, immediately the leprosy is gone from the person is clean. Now when he speaks the word only that this person's servant will be healed, that is what happens. We see this in verse 13 of Matthew, chapter eight. Then Jesus said to the centurion, go your way as you have believed, so let it be done to you. And his servant was healed that same hour. Wow, that is powerful. So what about salvation? Because I mean, leprosy is a symbol for sin. That's right, they were defiled by leprosy, we are defiled by sin. And we can even look at the story of the paralytic. This is now chapter nine of Matthew. For example. There when we look at that, Jesus got into a boat, he crossed over and came to his own city and it says, then behold, they brought to him a paralytic lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, son, be of good cheer, your sins are forgiven you. Now how long did it take for those sins to be forgiven? When Jesus spoke those words to the paralytic, it was done instantly. SPEAKER D That's right. SPEAKER C So does God say those words to us as well? SPEAKER D He does. SPEAKER C He does. So if we hear those words, your sins are forgiven you, do. We put it in the future tense, your sins will be forgiven you because if you look at the tense, it says your sins are forgiven. It's present tense, present continuous tense. So if we take an application to that, which is evolutionary in process, in other words, we need time. As evolution says, when you look at a yard, you have the scrap metal yards and say, for example, you let a bomb off in the scrap metal yard symbolizing the big bang. For example, are you going to see a seven four seven come out of that scrap metal yard by that big bang, that big explosion. SPEAKER D No, you won't. SPEAKER C But evolution says, given enough time, billions of years, that is what you should be able to expect, because within the process itself, it will create and it will actually improve. It'll make itself better. But we're saying that's not the case because it needs to create a power of God to design and create the thing. So when God speaks forgiveness into our lives, do we expect it to take time as well, like evolution does? SPEAKER D Because if we do, we have just a wrong relationship with God. We're relating to Him in a way that he never designed for us to relate to Him. It's like we go, okay, let me go and sort myself out. Because it's interesting. The Pharisees, as we've just pointed out, is they were specialists in Scripture. SPEAKER C That's right. SPEAKER D They would have known that verse in Isaiah that know my word will accomplish what it says. But they kind of, in their experience, had a different translation. They said, I will accomplish what God has said. And so their mindset, when they viewed Scripture, what God was calling them to do and be, they said, okay, I will do it. I will do this. It's at the foot of Mount Sinai. The children of Israel said, all that the Lord has spoken, we will do, and we will be obedient rather than recognizing in the statements of God, statements coming from the Creator that are full of power to actually accomplish what God says. SPEAKER C So if I read the Word of God, but I think it's going to take time. And that's quite a common approach to Christianity. It's going to take time. Am I a creationist or am I evolutionist? Because that is the question that this program poses. Are we in our approach to Christianity and an approach to the gospel? The Word of God, which we've just told you, has got power within itself. The Bible tells us it's got power within itself. Do we take the creation approach where the Word of God accomplishes instantly what it says, or do we think it needs to take time? SPEAKER D Well, if we think it needs to take time, that is unfortunately an evolutionary approach to Christianity. And I think of one specifically. God asked us to do some very, very difficult things. If we look in Scripture, like in telling Peter to walk on the water, that's a difficult thing that he was asking him to do. But in calling him upon the water, he would give the power to walk on water. But another thing that I find in the book of John, jesus says, love one another. In the Sermon on the Mount, love your enemies. Yes, god lifts the standard so high, and he is calling us to love the people who have done us serious wrong. Now, that's an impossible thing that God is asking us to do right there. And it's a wrong it's actually an evolutionary response to go, oh, I agree with you, Jesus. I want to be loving. And I look forward to the day when one day I'll get it together and I'll be able to love people. I look forward to the day when I don't have these feelings in my heart. Lord Jesus, I agree with you. One day in the future we're going to reach that. SPEAKER C That's right. We can only but try. I've heard that often say, Look, I know I fall short, but we can only but try. SPEAKER D And we can understand and have sympathy for that mindset, because for these people, they don't recognize the power of God's Word. When Jesus said, Let there be light, there was light. When Jesus said Be clean, he was clean. When Jesus says Love one another. SPEAKER C Our. SPEAKER D Reflex response there is to treat it differently and go, okay, Jesus, you want me to love people, leave it with me. Give us a few years. I'm going to work on Know. I'll get there eventually, Jesus. Don't worry about me. I'll get there eventually. All that you've spoken, I'm happy to do that's the Old Covenant approach. That's the old Covenant approach. SPEAKER C Yeah. SPEAKER D We must see all of these things as synonymous. When God made the command, Let there be light, there was light. When God said Be clean, the leper was clean. And when Jesus says Love one another, we should be learning something here and going, okay. When you speak God, a miracle happens. And if we started to recognize that God's, when he when he says to us, love one another, love your enemies, there is power in that command to make it happen if we are willing to call out on God's name and trust the power of His Word. And so that's the appropriate response. If you're feeling like you desperately want to do God's will, you definitely want to do God's will, and you want to love people. And even when you're doing something terrible to someone else, you're feeling convicted in that moment, the power of God's Word is able to enable you in that moment to love. SPEAKER C Amen. And it's all by faith. SPEAKER D It's all by faith. SPEAKER C Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. But if you hear the word of God and you don't believe it, you actually haven't heard it. SPEAKER D That's right. SPEAKER C You've actually denied the power, what the Bible calls us having a form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof. So what we were trying to do here is to explain the difference between creation, evolution in the way we approach the gospel and the power of God's Word to transform and change that, so that our experience is different and our experience is commensurate with what we read in the scriptures. There's no delay. God can instantaneously do it as long as we believe, because that is the variable in the whole equation, isn't it? God has made us free moral agents. SPEAKER D It's a very good point that you brought up there. It is the variable, because at the end of all of his miracles of healing, he said, according to your faith, be it unto you, they were willing to trust Him and believe that as Creator God, he was able to do something. They weren't looking to themselves to solve the leprosy problem or whatever it was. They looked to him. And Jesus is longing for us to come to the place where we are willing to trust His Word and believe His Word. Because there were so many people that Jesus wanted to heal. He said there were many lepers in the time of Israel when Naaman, the story of Naaman, when he got healed by leprosy, he was a Gentile. Jesus said there were so many lepers in Israel in that time, but none of them were healed except for the leper, the Syrian leper, Naaman, because he was willing to trust the word of God and to obey what God says. SPEAKER C You know, that story of Naaman really inspires me and encourages me because, I mean, I've lost many people to diseases, and there's many people that I know that are sick at the moment, some really Godly nice people. But there's an encouragement to us as well to look at this, know this fact that God's Word is brimming with power. But we are the variable. We are the one. There's something more powerful than the word of, you know, Jesus, when he is on the mount there, he's coming down in Jerusalem there, and he goes, oh, Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones, those who are sent to her. How often I wanted to gather your children together as a hen gathers the chicks under her wings. So God's will, God's desire, how often I wanted to so this is what God wanted to do. This was his will and desire for Israel. For Jerusalem. But then it says these words, but you were not willing. So human will has got something to do with retarding or restricting or undermining the power that is in God's Word. SPEAKER D That's right. SPEAKER C Not that God is not willing, but simply that we believe that that Word is spoken there. And in general, it's true, but it's not specifically true for me or it's going to take time. SPEAKER D That's right. SPEAKER C So if we say it's going to take time, we say that you are actually atheistic evolutionist. You believe the word of God, but you also believe that that requires time periods to fulfill what God said. But as the examples we've demonstrated out of the Bible, when Jesus healed the leper, when he said, Be cleansed, how long did it take? It was immediate, instant. And when God speaks cleansing, he speaks forgiveness, he speaks health to you. How quickly can it happen? It can be instant. Sometimes it takes a little bit longer. For example, we know that Naaman. Had to go and bath himself seven times. But the word of God told him seven times and you'll be healed at the 7th time. The same with the man who was blind. Jesus spit in the dust, made mud, put the mud and clay on his eyes and said Go and wash your eyes. When he went and washed his eyes instantly. SPEAKER D The lyrics of the song really summarize it well trust and obey, for there's no other way to be happy in Jesus than to trust and obey. SPEAKER C Amen. So dear listener, we pray that you would also trust God's Word and the power of God's Word. Remember, you are the variable. You are the one that can determine how much of God's power is available to you. Not because there's lacking of power in God's Word, but simply because God wants us to trust Him and love Him and enter into a loving relationship where we believe every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Look forward to catching up with you next time. God bless once to every. SPEAKER B Thank you for joining us on Faith. To Faith. If you would like more information about today's program or if you have any questions, please contact 3ABN Australia Radio by Phoning. 02 4973 3456. Or you can send an email to [email protected] You can also contact us on our 3ABN Australia radio Facebook page. We'd love to hear from you.